专访Adobe CEO：软件公司做大才有出路

作者： CNET科技资讯网 翻译：李海

CNETNews.com.cn 2005-08-30 08:35 AM

CNET科技资讯网 8月30日国际报道 当你处在一个巨头林立的市场，比如微软，甲骨文，Google，小公司发展的思想是没有意义的。这也是Adobe首席执行官Bruce Chizen 今年春天决心以34亿美元收购Macromedia的真正原因。

这是一场梦幻的合并行动，它将Flash动画软件的创造者与PDF技术的创造者拉到了一块。在多媒体的世界，Adobe公司已经树立了一种几乎不可能撼动的地位。

至少在纸面上是这样的。

软件行业充满了这样的合并，从雄心勃勃到误入歧途，最著名的例子要数Ray Noorda为了再造Novell公司而进行的收购行动了， Ray Noorda当时希望收购能够帮助其更好的和微软进行竞争。但是，Novell至此再也没有恢复过来。

Chizen表示，他清楚自己将面临什么，他认为， Macromedia的收购对两家公司都有好处。CNET新闻网站最近采访了Chizen，内容涉及Macromedia的业务，以及他如何看待技术世界的变革。

问：当Adobe宣布收购Macromedia后，一些投资者提起了诉讼。你如何看待这些诉讼？

Chizen：我们认为那完全是轻率的举动，一点也没有可取之处。我不能进一步的评价这些诉讼，但是，用户，投资者，每个人的意见促使我们花了那么长的时间进行收购。事情明摆在那里。

不是所有人。我们就听到Jim Cramer表示他对此不满。

Chizen：是的，但还有其它人呢。如果你看看绝大部分网站及网络日志上的反响，就会了解真正的情况了。

对于两家公司合并为一家，人们有很多的担心。这可能是你们进行的最为大胆的一次收购了。

Chizen：从财务的角度上看，是这样的。但是，如果你看看Macromedia的情况，我们了解保持的业务，我们相互注意已有多年。另外，我们都在同一地区。Adobe的很多员工与Macromedia的员工一样，都生活在湾区（Bay area），因此，从一个公司到另一个公司上班非常的方便。

但合并工作中，你们会碰到哪些问题呢？

Chizen：任何收购都是比较艰难的。我认为，那些告诉你收购是容易的，合并是容易的人都在撒谎。合并可不轻松。但我们正在全力以赴。

目前，业界的合并气候有没有什么变化？你们在考虑收购Macromedia时候，是否觉得你们需要一定的公司规模，或者，你们无法做得象Macromedia一样的好？

Chizen：我认为，收购不是万能的。

那么，是什么让你决定收购Macromedia呢？

Chizen：每年，我们都会检查我们的先前战略计划。今年，当我们这么做时，我们谈到了如何给我们的Acrobat用户更多的丰富体验，更多的动画，更多的图像，更多的视频和更多的协作的事情。然后，我们注意到了Macromedia，我们说：“如果我们拥有Macromedia，我们可能会加速实现自己的战略。”

收购是因为软件公司的发展速度在降低吗？

Chizen: 我们没有这样。但是，很多软件公司的发展速度在降低。

我们最近和德州仪器的首席执行官进行了交谈，他认为，强劲的增长将来自非PC计算设备的需求增长。你如何看待未来五年，PC对替代设备的争论？

Chizen: 我的观点是，越来越多的人将通过非PC设备浏览，使用，交换消息。PC上的信息活动将越来越少，移动设备上的信息交流活动将越来越多。未来两到四年内，配备了卫星电视盒，或者视频游戏，或者光纤盒的高清电视可能具有电脑的功能。

这一切对Adobe来说意味着什么？

Chizen: 这意味着，即使我们绝大部分的用户希望使用PC来创建，管理，传输信息，我们也不得不确保这些信息可以在非PC设备上运行。现在，我们在Adobe Reader日文软件中已经做了一些这方面的尝试，我们正在花钱进行相关的研究。

用户创建内容的方式会有所变化吗？

Chizen: 我们大部分的用户将仍然使用他们的PC来创建信息，因为，CPU的马力仍然在不断的增强。

在媒体的争夺战中，标准问题是否仍然是一个绊脚石？

Chizen: 我们支持所有的主流格式。我们很多的用户使用QuickTime。有很多人使用Window媒体播放器，虽然使用Real的人并不太多，但我们仍然将支持这种格式。现在，我们还可以利用Flash播放器的优势为网站服务。

这是Adobe细分器吗？

Chizen: 一旦合并完成，PDF和Flash就会遍地开花，我们的触角就会超过微软，因为，微软仅仅占领了一种平台。

提到微软，你们会在更多的领域展开竞争吗？

Chizen: 实际的情况是，微软和Adobe已经竞争了多年。20年前，微软试图和PostScript竞争，虽然后来完全的失败，但他们曾经尝试过。

还有就是PhotoDraw，它曾经和Office进行过捆绑，同时对Illustrator和Photoshop进行过封锁，那样的行动也完全的失败了。现在，他们有Digital Imaging Pro，他们在这一领域一直没有成功过，但他们也一直没有停止过努力。

我自己很不愿意和微软进行碰撞，他们是一家4百亿美元的软件公司，具有垄断的力量，不幸的是，我们要和它进行竞争。我们只能将注意力放在我们擅长的事情上。

当你为9月的规划会议做作准备时，Google已经成为你头脑中一个可能的竞争者了吗？

Chizen: Google比较有趣。他们是一个潜在的竞争者。在图片软件领域，他们和我们存在着一丝的竞争，但是，实际的情况是，他们的发展重心和我们的重心存在着很多的不同。我们不会关注低端的用户，而他们会，他们也不会对应用程序收费。

这对Adobe来说是幸运的。我也考虑过宽带会变得越来越快，Adobe也可能会提供基于主机的应用程序，就像Google的应用程序差不多。我认为，Google将在非专业用户以及非爱好者市场取得成功，但是，随着我们工作的深入，我认为我们将成功的对抗住 Google，现在，我们不存在竞争。

电子书籍（eBooks ）会突破现有的应用范围吗？

Chizen:会。

在我们的有生之年会见到这一天的到来吗？

Chizen:绝对会见到。

让我们谈谈苹果电脑。你怎么看苹果应用向英特尔系统迁移的趋势？不是很容易吗？

Chizen: 是的，不太容易。如果你看看最新的测试情况，你就会明白，这样的产品要在三四个月后才能出来。你一时半会还无法买到“MacTel”（苹果英特尔结合）的产品。史蒂夫清楚这一点。

那么，你认为Adobe什么时候才会推出MacTel机器适用的Photoshop呢？

Chizen:我还无法确定时间。我们还需要做很多的工作。

你对微软的Vista有什么评价吗？

Chizen:还没有。

那么他们需要做哪些事情？

Chizen:它还没有完工，我无法给出意见。

如果看看风险投资领域的情况，你是否仍然见到了大规模的软件投资？或者，大规模投资的趋势已经结束？

Chizen:不是传统意义上的情况了。我仍然看到了投向安全，低端应用的风险投资。但是，现在的情况和5年之前的情况不同了。软件市场的竞争相当的艰难。大公司获得了大的收益，他们的研发资金也相当的雄厚。总之，软件市场是一个艰苦的市场。(编辑：孙莹)

Adobe under construction

August 29, 2005, 4:00 AM PT
By Charles Cooper
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

When you inhabit a market populated by megagiants like Microsoft, Oracle–and yes, include Google in the mix–there’s no sense thinking small. So it was that Adobe CEO Bruce Chizen earlier this spring engineered a $3.4 billion deal to buy Macromedia.

It’s an imaginative combination that brings the maker of Flash animation software together with the creators of the PDF (Portable Document Format) technology for presenting text files online. What with content developers hungry for new tools to use in the fast-changing world of multimedia, Adobe has set up a near-impregnable position.

At least on paper.

This sort of stuff is notoriously tricky, and the history of the software industry is littered with the detritus that remains from once grand ambitions gone astray–the most famous failure being Ray Noorda’s quixotic attempt to refashion Novell by acquiring companies he believed would help him battle Microsoft on several different fronts. Novell has never recovered.

Chizen says he knows what he’s up against and remains convinced that the Macromedia acquisition was the right move for both companies. CNET News.com recently met with Chizen to talk about the business and how he views the evolution of the technology world.

Q: Certain investors filed suit after the Macromedia announcement. What can you say about the lawsuit?
Chizen: We think it is totally frivolous and has no merit whatsoever. I can’t comment further on it, but customers, the investors, everybody, were asking what took us so long to do the deal. It was so obvious.

Well, not everyone. For whatever it’s worth, we heard Jim Cramer on his CNBC show, and he didn’t sound thrilled.
Chizen: Yeah, but other than Jim? If you read most of the sites and most of the blogs, there’s the usual concern with customers asking whether we still will maintain their product after the merger.

A lot of the concern has to do with the integration of the two companies into one. This is probably the trickiest merger that you guys are attempting to consummate since Aldus.
Chizen: From a financial perspective, yes. But if you look at Macromedia–we understand each other’s businesses and we’ve been watching one another for many, many years. Also, they are local. Many of the Adobe employees and many of the Macromedia employees live on the (Bay area) peninsula, so getting from one place to the other is pretty easy.

But what about the potential issues you’re going to face to make the combination work?
Chizen: Any acquisition is hard. I think anybody who tells you acquisitions are easy or mergers are easy is lying. They aren’t easy. But we’re going about it with our eyes open.

What’s different about the climate these days with all the consolidation going on in the industry? Was your thinking in doing the Macromedia deal that you need to be a certain size or you can’t make it?
Chizen: I don’t believe scale really buys you anything.

So what convinced you to go after Macromedia?
Chizen: Every year we go through our previous strategy plan…When we sat down this year, we talked about how to give users more of a rich experience, more animation, more graphics, more video and more collaboration around Acrobat. Then we took a look at Macromedia and said, "Jeez, if we had Macromedia as part of our asset base, we could speed up our execution against our strategy." Without that, we might have been late. That was driving me more than scale.

Is it because growth is slowing down for software companies?
Chizen: Not for us. But growth is slowing down for a lot of software companies who were charging multiple millions of dollars to do back-end, infrastructure stuff. Back when money was free, a lot of IT guys had bosses telling them, "Whatever it takes, get it done." They would spend $40 million on an ERP system or an HR system or a CRM system. Now the IT guy is saying, "Hey, we got burnt. We’re not doing that any longer."

We recently spoke with the CEO of Texas Instruments, and he said he expects stronger growth coming from demand for non-PC computing devices. How do you see the next five years shaping up in terms of this PC versus alternative device debate?
Chizen: My view is (that) more people will view, consume and interact with information on non-PC devices than PC devices. It is going to be less on a PC and more on mobile devices. Two to four years from now it will be through an HDTV that has a satellite box or a video game or a cable box or maybe just natively has computing capability.

What does that mean for Adobe?
Chizen: It means that even though most of our customers will want to create and manage and deliver that information using their PC, we have to make sure that that information can easily be consumed on a non-PC. We’re doing a little bit of that today with the Adobe Reader in Japan, so we make some money there.

Does that suggest a change in what your customers use to create content?
Chizen: Most of our constituents will still use their PCs to create that information because the CPU horsepower is still going to be better for sophisticated creators of information.

In the battle between media players, is the standards issue again going to be an impediment?
Chizen: We’ll support every format that makes sense. Many of our customers use QuickTime. Many use Window Media Player. Not as many customers use Real–but we’ll continue to support the Real Player. However, we will take advantage of the Flash Player–especially for Web sites. The lightness of it and the quality–it seems to be taking off. Plus, if you look at the installed base of Flash, it is greater than any of the other video players on the Web.

Do you see that as a differentiator for Adobe?
Chizen: A major differentiator for both Adobe and Macromedia. If you look at our (combined) reach and the proliferation of PDFs and Flash, our reach is greater than that of Microsoft because Microsoft is only on one platform.

Speaking of Microsoft, will you be running into each other a lot more?
Chizen: The reality is Microsoft and Adobe have been competing for a number of years. Go back 20 years to when Microsoft tried to do a PostScript competitor…and that was a total failure. But they tried.

The one that I remember intimately was PhotoDraw. It bundled in with Office and was designed to knock off Illustrator and Photoshop…a total failure. And now you have Digital Imaging Pro. They really haven’t been that successful at it, but they haven’t stopped trying.

As much as I prefer not to butt heads against Microsoft, they’re a $40 billion software company that has a monopoly and unfortunately we do butt heads. What we try to do is to stay focused on what we do well.

As you prepare for your September planning meeting, does Google figure into your thinking as a possible rival down the road?
Chizen: Google is interesting. They are a potential competitor. They compete a little bit in the visual photo area, but the reality is where they’re focused is much different than where we’re focused. We’re not focused on the lower end consumer, but they certainly have the resources and their business model is such that they don’t have to charge the user for applications.

Fortunately for Adobe, because our users have content and their need to manipulate that content and enhance that content is so great, they need client applications to do that. I also like to think that as broadband does become faster and faster and faster, Adobe will be able to provide those host-based applications in a much better way toward our customers than what Google is able to do. I think Google will be successful for the nonprofessional or the nonenthusiast that aspires to use the same tools as the professional, but as long as we do our job, I think we’ll continue to be successful against Google. Today, we don’t compete.

Will eBooks ever break out of its niche?
Chizen: Yes.

In our lifetime?
Chizen: Absolutely. I’ve always said the problem was the value proposition of the book versus what was being delivered electronically. What’s been limiting has been the devices….knowing the hardware manufacturers, I would be willing to bet that two or three years from now, you will have a dynamite eBook device for $199 or less.

Let’s talk about Apple Computer. What is the early word about moving Mac apps over to work on Intel-based systems? Not so easy?
Chizen: No, it’s not…If you look at most testing cycles, that’s three or four months until the product’s out. You can’t just turn a switch and get a MacTel product…and Steve knows that.

So when do you think Adobe will be ready to take Photoshop to MacTel?
Chizen: I haven’t given a date yet…there’s just a lot of work to do.

What’s your opinion of where Microsoft is with Vista?
Chizen: It isn’t quite there yet.

What do they still need to do?
Chizen: It’s just not complete. I can’t get into the features per se. Conceptually it’s there, but when you play around with it, you know they just have a lot of work to do. If they expect to get it out in 2006, it means they have to ship in the summer to meet (manufacturer) requirements. There is not that much time between now and then. So, it’s going to be really interesting to see what they deliver at the Professional Developers Conference in September.

If you look across the venture capital community, are you still seeing much interest in terms of the real heavy-duty software investment? Or is it pretty much over?
Chizen: Not in the traditional sense. I still see investments going into security, and I see some investment in low-end apps. I think Salesforce.com has proven to a lot of people that you don’t need a $10 million solution to satisfy a simple problem. It’s a much different world than it was five years ago. It’s also harder to compete. It’s not just about the product any longer. The big guys have gotten bigger and R&D budgets are big. It’s just a tough market.