心理治疗大师访谈录
----容格派心理治疗师
Interview
面谈
James Hollis Ph.D. is Executive Director of The Jung Educational Center of Houston, Texas. Hollis trained as a Jungian analyst in Zurich, Switzerland, and is the author of eight books and over forty articles on Jung's work. He has his own active therapy practice and travels around the country lecturing to audiences of students and peers on Jungian theories of human development and what he calls "the meeting point of psyche and soul."
James Hollis博士，得克萨斯洲休斯顿容格教育中心主任，Hollis是容格派分析学家, 受训于瑞士苏黎世,，他是八部关于容格工作的书和超过40篇文章的作者。他从事心理治疗，并在国内游学，向学生和同辈们讲授关于容格的人格发展理论, 他称之为“心理和灵魂的融会点”。
WIE: What, according to Jung, is the ego?
WIE: 从容格的角度说来，什么是自我呢
JAMES HOLLIS: The ego as defined by Jung is the central complex of consciousness. When we hear the word "complex" we tend to think of something that's pathological, whereas all a complex really is, is an affectively charged cluster of energy. The complex of the ego begins to form when we first split off from the primal other, which is typically our mother; that is when we separate from the breast. And while that separation is necessary for the formation of the individual, it's also very painful because it's the loss of that early experience of unity and sense of primal belonging.
JH:容格定义自我为意识（相对于无意识，译者按）的中心情结。当我们听到“情结”这个词，我们会认为这是病态的，其实，一个情结就是被情感充电了的一簇能量。自我的情结在我们第一次从最初的他者(一般是我们的母亲) 分离时开始形成，也就是说，当我们从母亲的乳房分离时，我们开始形成自我情结。对分离对个体形成来说是必要的。但这种分离是痛楚的，因为早期一体感和归属感丧失了。
Jung saw the formation of the ego as essential for consciousness. Consciousness is predicated on the split between subject and object—to become conscious I have to know that of which I am not. I have to have a sense of "that over there" versus "this over here." He also saw the ego as a necessary agency of intentionality, focus and purpose. How is it that you and I arranged to meet at the same time to address the same subject? It was a function of "ego focus" that was critical for this conversation to occur.
容格把自我的形成看作意识所必须的。意识以客体和自体的分裂为基础——变的有意识，我必须知道我不是其他.我必须有 “那个在那上边”相对于“这个在这之上”的这样一种感觉。他还可以把自我看作意图，注意和目的的必要中介。你和我安排在某一时间会见来讨论同一个客体是怎样的呢？这就是“自我关注”的一个功能，它是这次谈话发生的重要条件
The ego, as a complex, is extremely malleable and "invadable." When the ego gets invaded by contents from the unconscious, when it's in the grip of other complexes, it becomes insecure or power-driven, or whatever the case may be. You see, what we often call "ego" is really the ego under a state of possession by one or more of the complexes, such as a money complex, a power complex, a sexual complex or an aggression complex. These complexes are not an individual's core nature, but they do have the power to usurp or possess the ego.
作为情结的自我是易受影响和易被“侵犯”的。 当自我被无意识侵入时，它变的不安全或者被权力欲驱使，或者任何可能的情况。你看，我们平常所谓的“自我”是被一个或者多个情结占有的“自我”，这些情结有金钱情结，权力情结，性欲情结或者攻击情结。这些情结并不是个体的内在本质，但是他们具有侵占或者摆布自我的能力。
WIE: In Jung's view, is the ego a positive, negative or neutral force in the personality?
WIE：在容格的观点中，自我在人格中是积极的，消极的还是中性的力量呢？
JH: As I described earlier, the ego is a necessary formation for the creation of identity, consciousness, intentionality and purpose—all of which are pluses. The ego itself is not a problem. However, when it's in a state of possession by our insecurities, when it's in the grip of our history, it becomes neurotic, so to speak—it gets in the way. So the problem is not the ego; the problem is what happens to the ego. The perfect balance—if we could ever achieve it—would be an open ego state in dialogue with the other parts of the outer and inner world, where we could absorb messages from the culture, but not necessarily be subsumed by them, and we could also dialogue with the unconscious.
JH：如前所述，自我是同一性，意识，意向性和目的产生的居所，所有这些都是正面的。自我本身不是问题。但是，当它处于被我们内在不安全感占据的状态时，当它被我们的历史所统治时，它变的神经质，所以可以这样说——它妨碍了我们。所以，问题不是自我；问题是：在自我处， 什么发生了。 完美的平衡——如果我们有一天能够达到的话——是一种开放的自我状态： 在此状态中，外部和内部世界的各个部分自由对话，那时，我们可以从文化中吸收各种信息，但是并不被他们所左右，而且我们还可以和无意识来对话。
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